Friday, June 3, 2016

After the post

We write.
We post.
People read.
Some comment.

But do you ever go back and read some of the comments left?

For the past couple days, Night Owl, Stubby and myself have been having a spirited discussion concerning Chase Utley. Feel free to read our responses, but for the tl:dr crowd, the gist is that NO feels Utley plays the game hard and did no wrong in the take out injury from last year's NLCS. And the Mets are whiners for the rule change. Stubby thinks Utley is an asshole and the Dodgers are Bush leaguers. I think Utley may not have gone in with intent to injure, but he went in too hard and the rule change, while not perfect, is beneficial. I also did a lot of research and posted a ton of links. I tend to be that way. But one of NO responses was "You sure went out of your way to dig up ... well, I don't know what you dug up, because you're not proving anything. In fact, what the fuck are you talking about?"

Being that I have my own forum, I decided to respond more over here. I have a mailing from NO to show off (and it could be my last from him for all I know), but I am a pretty honest and upfront guy. At least I like to believe I am. I certainly don't have the readership of Night Owl Cards. I'm sure the Owl easily breaks triple digits with each post. I'd have to run a contest to hit that level in views. 25% of the numbers on my posts are probably accidental clicks or redirects. As I have stated - I write for me. I write for fun and enjoyment. Sure, I can put time into a post and feel sad if the views are low, but I'll keep writing and trying to be unique. I do a lot of Sudoko and other puzzles for the same reason I write - it keeps my mind sharp.

I tend to be subtle when I write. I will tap dance around what's in my head when I know it's bad. I don't like being negative in a direct sense, and the answer to "what the fuck are you talking about" is pretty negative. To Owl, and to anyone that has watched our discussion there, I should pull the band aid off and hopefully not piss anyone off. Greg - know that I love ya, and I hold no ill will against you. We both have our thoughts and passionate feelings about sports.

But I feel you are being biased.

We are all guilty of it. I am. There isn't a single blogger, nor reader of the blogs, that isn't biased in one sense or another. My point is your bias sees that Utley slide as a hard play, and the evidence is clear it was far too hard. Utley went in late, with no attempt to reach the bag and all attempt to take down the fielder. The injury could have been avoided, but Chase decided he was going to do whatever was needed to stop that double play, in violation of the rules that stood at the time. Sure, they changed the rules after the fact, and maybe the new rule isn't perfect, but it's a start. You say if the uniforms were reversed, you would be more angry, but still okay with it. I'm sorry - I can't believe you. I know if one of the players were is Sox pinstripes, his position in the play would affect my reaction and my bias.

I'll see my beloved Blackhawks get away with one, knowing that they should have received a penalty, or the call was light in our favor. And I'll even comment that we got lucky and chalk it up to "well, we were owed for this and that". The games (all sports) tend to balance themselves out over the season and what should have happened in one game is offset by what didn't happen in another. But there is no balance out for injuries. Granted, Tejada going out did not affect the outcome of the series, but what if it did?

I brought up the Greinke/Quentin altercation of 2013. Owl thinks Quentin is a lowlife scum. Quentin got 8 games suspension. Greinke lost a month time - maybe about the same amount of starts. Per NO, "Charging the mound is not anything that should be part of the game". I'll let you in on a secret of why I brought that play up.

I think it does belong in the game.

Think about it. You have a ball coming at you at 90 MPH. You have less than 2 seconds to react to the placement of the ball. The pitcher has complete control over whether you do or don't get hit. Some pitches away, but a few are intentional. And what's the recourse of a field player on a pitcher that intentionally plunks them? Do they get to throw a fast ball at him? If Puig gets hit by Matt Harvey, does he get to take the mound and throw one when Harvey comes to the plate? Sure, the other team's pitcher gets to send back a message. And they should - I support that as well. But messages should not at someone's head. Never. That's Bush League. And Greinke went Bush on Quentin. You can state the facts of the game at the time of the pitch - doesn't matter. Greinke was throwing at Quentin. It's evident.

Syndergaard threw Utley. And Greinke threw at Quentin. And if someone is intending to hurt you, in the heat of the game, you are going to take matters in your own hands. Do you think Quentin started running towards the mound thinking "I'm going to break his collarbone"? Did Utley slide thinking "I'm busting that leg"? No. Neither did. But injuries happen. History has existed between Greinke and Quentin. Greinke threw at Quentin's head. Quentin responded. Right or wrong - if you head hunt, expect a response.

Well, I think I have said my peace. As I mentioned, NO did send me some cards recently. Could be the last shipment from NY for all I know, but let's appreciate the rectangle goodness within.

Some shiny. A couple nice PC additions in the old school logo on the Crede and the UD Icons. Plus some pen corrected vintage and a sweet Fisk button. Thanks Greg.

In the heat of our discussion, NO tweeted:

I'm an asshole. I just am. I also thnk humor solves a lot, so I kind of created one within the same line:

Carlos Quentin - The Man

Greg - in my book, we're cool. We're not going to be in agreement on everything, and we shouldn't be. It's who we are as humans to think as we do, form opinions counter to another and hopefully discuss amicably. Over at Night Owl Cards, you can say what you want, being honest and truthful. On your blog, everything is valid and correct, with not a single inaccurate word written.

But this is my house. And here - you're wrong.


  1. I don't know how it's possible, but you're wrong over here, too.

    1. I reacted the way I did in the comments because you did something that rarely happens on any other card blog, you went out of your way to call me out on the "error of my ways" in great detail in the comments. I suppose some people would say I should be complimented because my writing prompts such discussion and reaction, but sometimes, you just get sick of it -- good lord, can't you write a sentence like everyone else -- and this was one of those times. Also, there are a handful of commenters who seem to comment only so they can push people's buttons or undercut something someone said. Guess which one you are? Sometimes that kind of behavior can draw a reaction. You think it's charming. It's not.

    2. You still assume that this is about my allegiance to my team. It isn't. Never was, other than I paid a lot more attention because it was my team. You assume that I'm biased toward my team, which I guess is why you brought up the Greinke-Quentin thing because it doesn't have anything to do with what I was talking about on my post. But there have been many times in which fellow Dodgers fans thought we were robbed or screwed or unjustly harmed in some way and I remained quiet, because I knew they were wrong. I approach my team rooting a little more objectively than other fans. Not all the time, but my team is not always right and never wrong. I've never seen it that way, and you assume I do. You don't know me.

    3. Charging the mound is bullshit 99.99999 percent of the time. There is nothing more concerning to me on a baseball field than someone charging the mound. It's more horrifying than someone getting hit in the head because although you wonder whether the pitcher had intended to harm someone in a beaning, you never wonder what the person charging the mound is doing. He's going out to do some damage. That is never cool. It is also the quickest way to get the largest number of players or other personnel injured. And if you ever want to get fans involved or injured, a brawl is also the quickest way. Nope, mound charging should be outlawed. I still don't know why people aren't screaming about that. I guess a Mets player has to get their leg broken.

    4. You're making me talk about topics that weren't even part of the intent of my blog post. This didn't have to do with my allegiance to the Dodgers. This has to do with my love for the game, my love for the way it's played and the way I think it should be played, my love for how certain players play, how the game was taught to me, and how it was played as I grew to love it. The game is changing and tweaks are being made and it doesn't seem like the game now is what I liked then. There are a lot of people online screaming about change this and change that and I don't understand what's wrong with the game I love at all. And if you say stuff like that you get criticized or mocked. That's why I write posts like that. You're not the only person who can be subtle. I'm subtle all the time on my posts. There is stuff in there that no one will ever figure out what I'm talking about. Maybe that's why you think it was about my allegiance to the Dodgers. It concerns me when people call Utley a Piece of Shit. Phillies fans love the guy and as a Dodger fan I can see why. He's not a POS. And, yeah, that's why I responded so forcefully, too.

    5. Yup, you're right, you're an asshole. But I'll still send you White Sox cards. I want to get them out of my house more now than ever.

    1. I had a long thought out response, but instead, this conversation has run it's course. I'm burying this and future opinions - don't worry.

      end of line.

  2. i missed all of this, and am not sure that i am caught up. still, here's my 2 cents.

    i wouldn't call what utley did a slide. more of a tumble. not an intent to injure, nor an intent to actually get to second base, but an intent to break up the double play. i cringed when i saw the play happen live, which tells me all i need to know to form my opinion of the matter.

    i have never played professional baseball, but i have been 'taken out' at second base on a dp turn, and i think i have a pretty good feel for what a legit slide looks like. heck, anyone who has watched a lot of baseball should know what a legit slide looks like. most of all, i think that utley should know that it's not what he did, but the way that he did it, that would result in being thrown at, and the mets should know that everyone else, including the umpires, also knew this so the ejections would be quick.

    now, i have never been involved in a mound charging incident, but i have asked a pitcher to throw at a batter. i've also intentionally hit a batter, and i've been in the batter's box feeling pretty sure that i was going to be thrown at. not one of those times did i think there was a chance of a mound charge because in each instance the hbp was (or at least should have been) expected. i mention this because, like the take-out slide, it's all part of the game. the closest i've come to being in a on-field fight was when a player slid in to second with his cleats up and spiked our shortstop. brawls and mound charging incidents occur when players feel that the rules (written and unwritten) of the game have been broken. sometimes they are right, and sometimes they are wrong. i don't have any data, but i assume that charging the mound incidents are less frequent than home plate collisions or take out slides at second base, and i don't see a need to outlaw any of those plays. i'm not even sure how that would work with the mound charging since they are spur of the moment decisions by the batter, who usually winds up getting ejected anyway. i suppose that the penalty for charging the mound would have to be steep to get players to not do it anymore. but then would the penalty for hbp also be steep for the pitcher? on a different note, i think that players running in from the bullpen during bench clearing incidents is ridiculous, but don't outlaw it.

    as for the rest of it, there have been a number of times over the past few years that i have typed a comment on various blogs only to cancel and delete before publishing simply because i know that my opinion won't impact what has been written or influence an opinion that i disagree with or change anyone's mind. it happened today on a blog not involved in this discussion in fact. maybe i'm avoiding conflict, but i think you can sort of tell who is open to a differing opinion and who is not.